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The story of a far(ce)ma-sue-tical business

July 19, 2012

http://inwinex.in/pdfs/financial/Annual-reports/FIN-AR-2009-10.pdf

Everyone download the report and read it well. See page 8/51. Look at who are the majority stakeholders ??

1.  This is a FOR Profit company.

2.  They changed their name recently to Source Natural Foods & Herbal Supplements Ltd

3.  Clearly the 1st family owns this business and has been consistently showing huge losses for the last 10 years PLUS.

4.  They have been manufacturing allopathic drugs (even antibiotics)

5.  Trusted de-“vote”-es are on the company board.

6.  The company is publicly listed.

There are so many interesting aspects to this….I highlight some of them below

The following is a very interesting extract from their board meeting minutes.

27th-Jan-2011 18:source: BSE

Inwinex Pharma – Outcome of Board Meeting  see   http://www.moneycontrol.com/stocks/stock_market/corp_notices.php?autono=402044

Inwinex Pharmaceuticals Ltd has informed BSE that the Board of Directors of the Company at its meeting held on January 27, 2011, inter alia, has taken the following decisions:

1. Central Government permission to be taken for the following related party transactions:

a. M/s. Arvind Exports

b. M/s. Sumeru Ayurveda Pvt. Ltd.

c. M/s. Sri. Sumeru Realty Pvt. Ltd.

d. M/s. Sumeru Travel solution
e.

M/s. Gowra Petrochem Pvt. Ltd.

Other sites to visit and watch and to learn from as regards the above……

http://www.bseindia.com/xml-data/corpfiling/AttachHis/Inwinex_Pharmaceuticals_Ltd_020412.pdf

(The above is straight from the Bombay Stock Exchange)…see all other reports too

As per the minutes above, they wish to do 2 Cr IRs worth of business per annum  with their trusted devotees and board members

Sriram Chandrashekaran and CL Rathi.

Broadvision is Sriram’s company (He is an AOL teacher and long time devotee) and Advance Enzyme Tech is CL Rathi’s company (He is ex Apex Body Maharashtra).

They are changing the company name. Why ?

Mr Arvind Vachaswi wants to pay himself from a loss making company (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=INWINEX.BO+Income+Statement&annual) which he and his family have been running for the past decade Plus……..and a company that is in all likelihood funded by money that AOL devotees have generated (99% probability). I am looking for a better explanation.  Hope we get it.

Now here are the things anyone that is interested in this subject should do….

1.  Look at the financial history of the company.

2. See the significant anomalies such as (If none of the founding directors had a job at that time, things have been posted that the family was poor, so where did the capital come from ?)

3.  Who offsets the losses year after year after year.

4.  Isn’t Ayurveda in principle completely at loggerheads with Allopathy especially things like antibiotics ? How ethical is it to preach Ayurveda to your devotees and sell other non-related pharma  drugs.

5.  The entire AOL crowd is of the belief that SriSri Ayurveda and other SriSri entities are not for Profit……and yet they all seem to want to have dealings with Inwinex (Now Source Natural Foods & Herbal Supplements Ltd

Common people……what do you all think we have here ?  I truly wish the Harshal’s and the Dr Peters and B&Ds and the Kashi’s would offer some believable explanations. I personally find this an absolutely  far out exercise and  a totally  “IN YOUR FACE” thing !!!

I ask myself….If this is not sheer arrogance…what else is ?

Is this is not  some kind of a law-end-nearing (cryptic clue) exercise…what is ?

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44 Comments
  1. VSS permalink
    July 19, 2012 4:28 pm

    @ bloggisatwafrombeyond,

    Are you IO? Anyway, I think posts such as this one are extremely important. My guess is that they won’t be able to say anything because all this information is very well documented. Also, after the last round of “damage control” that led to greater damage, they’ll try their best to pretend that this information doesn’t impact them. So, my guess is that they’ll try their best to remain silent. (I hope they prove me wrong.)

    The other thing that I find incredibly baffling is that no one has ever said that the money for these various businesses could have possibly come from either Mr. Ravi Shankar’s father or his brother-in-law — as they were not wealthy by any stretch of imagination. So, in the absence of any information provided about who has invested in these businesses, one will think that investments can be traced to that money which was raised through courses etc. — in the name of community service projects.

    For those who don’t know the information that you’ve revealed, my guess is that it must be a shock. For those who are aware of the fact that money raised in the name of community service projects is often / sometimes serving as the investment in the various businesses from which Mr. Ravi Shankar’s family profits, what is the justification they offer to themselves?

    There must, of course, be those who are financially dependent on Mr. Ravi Shankar and feel that they absolutely cannot find alternative employment outside AoL. Whether or not they are actually helpless — they feel helpless. They’re not staying in AoL because the information that you’ve provided is not insightful and damning — some of them may even have access to more or as much information.

    I’m wondering about those who don’t feel they are helpless because they do have a choice but decide to ignore this information and decide to stick with AoL and Mr. Ravi Shankar. How do they even begin to justify such a serious possibility of such serious money-laundering?

    I ask because this can’t be attributed to “guru lila” (not that I think anything can or should) — nor can this be attributed to the “guru” testing his followers (not that I think anything can or should).

  2. Dr Peter permalink
    July 19, 2012 5:38 pm

    Hi. I’m not sure who the OP is here. I can’t address your concerns because I’m not going to wade through some Indian business filing that I have no interest in. I want to reiterate that I’m not some representative of AOL. I’m just a guy who has had very good experiences with SSRS and the AOL. Obviously this is a concern of yours-I’m not trying to dismiss that-but it doesn’t hold anything for me.

    • bloggisatwa permalink
      July 20, 2012 1:47 am

      I hear you Dr Peter.

      As long I am treated well, As long as I am not harmed in any direct way. Why would I care ? Well, Dr Peter, you are being treated well because you don’t challenge him. Challenge him and you will know the difference. The reason you don’t challenge him, is because you like / admire him.

      However, the fact is that millions of others (admirers?) are manipulated into giving financial resources / time / energy into so called social causes that mostly remain incomplete, and the funds generated in their name get used for private loss making family businesses is of course not relevant to you. After all, as long as you are pampered within the system, why would you care ?. If millions of others getting exploited ……its their call not mine. I only care about myself and my own world. OK….I get it.

      Your message indicates that within all of this there is only one thing you care for ….”YOU”. Nothing wrong with that. That is a personal call/angle and that any free person takes. Thank you for sharing your stand Dr Peter.

      The fact is, many millions of others have to exploited, so AOL can continue to thrive / be strong and powerful…so that they can continue to pamper the likes of Dr Peter. Your pampering would stop the minute there is a tax evasion case…trust me.

      Hence, please understand that you are having your GOOD TIMES because many others are being exploited in the name of a cause/system that “YOU Dr Peter choose not to challenge” for its anomalies.

      Are you also telling yourself that you really do not care that AOL must now pay directly and indirectly well over US$ 500,000 for the court case in the USA which they just lost. This money comes to AOL from the pockets of many many selfless devotees who have not been been TOLD that their money was going to pay for a lost law suit. The reason they are not being told, is simple. Then would then want to see the blog for themselves and decide whether it was necessary to spend the money in the 1st place. If that happens, we all know what will happen. Like you Dr Peter they will not be able to leave the blog…at least for the time being.

      Second, does the construct and the constitution of the AOL-USA company and it’s Not for Profit status….allow them to use Volunteer donated money to pay for a LOST LAW SUIT ? So, I wonder, which volunteer in which country is now desperately raising money for this LAW SUIT payoff ?..Schemes must definitely be afoot.

      Those in the immediate AOL-USA management circle….who are aware of this whole LAW SUIT and case and its financial implications ….all of them are DELIBERATELY HUSHING UP these facts so that ordinary volunteers do not ask too many questions and continue with their blind faith in the system.

      Dr Peter…

      a. By Caring only for your own benefits,
      b. By not challenging the system and not stopping it
      c. By the very token of your this post

      I believe you are now a self confessed accomplice to this nefarious activity of deliberate concealment of information and continued misleading of regular AOL devotees. Admittedly you network with many of them on a fairly regular basis.

      The name given for such exploitative behavior in biology is “parasitism”….

      Alternatively, the other way a person may find themselves in such a situation as you are in today, is when we become super addicted to something. That something could be even a belief system. During such times we become extremely insensitive to our environment….since all such a person will be able to think about at that moment is how they are going to their next fix. Its truly a huge fix-ation.

      For some of us that which we are seeing is not all OKAY. We feel that the system can be more transparent and should not resort to deceit. Not open deceit. Not concealed deceit. No deceit…period. For a spiritual organisation, that should score a 10/10.

      Many of the people who come to AOL come for relief from many sources of stress. And they end up falling into AOL’s pot of deceit. Just as we would warn a stranger beside us… “Watch your step, the manhole is open……”……As far as I am concerned this BLOG and my posts have the same intent and purpose. Watch Out !!!!….

      The system is exploiting so many 1000s of people every week simply because these young people choose to believe blindly in the perceived GOODNESS being offered to them through AOL’s IDEAS which are again their devotee’s ideas and not belonging to the 1st family. These new people do not see the manhole…..in fact many of them are so inexperienced they are not even seeing the sidewalk.

      As of this time. I care about these nameless, faceless people falling into this manhole. Hence, I am shouting out to them. There are many out there who have already fallen in and don’t know how to come out. Its a messy maze inside the hole. To them, with the little I can see for myself, and with my own past experience, I am providing hope that they can come out, and come out safely.

      I expose. And I am suppose I am still a romantic. And Maybe, just maybe, the manhole is not a manhole that leads to a sewage dump…..but a divine portal that transports me to Shambala……this I am definitely not able to see at this time. For now, all I see is a manhole and sense bad smell coming from it. So, I am making a noise, so that others traveling with me can take notice. Its my way of caring. It makes me happy to make that noise.

      I have looked at the marketing brochure for the Shambala Portal very very closely. At all the minute details. In fact, I helped make some of the material in that brochure many seasons ago. So, I believe that I know it well….truly.

      So, am I going to jump into the manhole to check whether its really a portal to Shambala ? Well, some 5 years ago…..Definitely Yes. Today…NOPE. Will not happen.

      Today, I ask the guys selling me the portal to take a leap into their portal in front of me and a 100 others. They will take my video camera and film for me what is in the hole. They will bring it back for me and then I will decide.

      Over time, my view changed, my perspective changed. Me thinks, I probably grew up a little. Its just that I developed another way of looking at the whole “hole” thing. A rather hole-y attitude. It exposes the holi-ness for what it truly is. And, that works for me at this time.

      At AOL, the goodness offered to the world in the form of a community initiative, is typically the face of a devoted young volunteer whose head and heart are still clean and untainted. New recruits do most of the fund generation. Its they who have the freshness and whose hearts are clear of any manipulation. Hence they are successful too….usually !!!! Soon they mature and things slow down. So the recruiting has to keep happening. That is the compulsion….AOL need young legs to run with the stale story which unfortunately to the new recruits feels fresh…like a breath of fresh air.

      And finally…..Welcome again to this new Blog Dr Peter…..you give me the opportunity to put up some fun posts. Thank you for participating.

      • bloggisatwa permalink
        July 20, 2012 3:21 am

        (thinking to myself…”ttm”)

        I am also wondering whatever happened to all the other “land grabbing” related cases in the Karnataka courts. The case against the Ayurveda college and so on ? Whatever happened to all of them ?

        Since nothing has been talked about or reported after the initial set of publications…. that means the interested parties have managed to hush it up pretty nicely. Did they manage to buy out (BTW a buy out may not necessarily be a pleasant exchange of gifts) the folks making the noise ? Or maybe they bought out others in the system, who in turn made files / documents disappear from their original locations……created delays in the process….asked for more time through the legal channel and so on.

        Alternative explanation : They were false allegations in the 1st place, and AOL managed to win all these cases in court. In which case they would have tom-tommed it like crazy. Which has not happened.

        Hmmm….Conclusion for now : They are able to buy out some pretty strong parties here (including editors and journalists). But then, how do they buy this blogg when you do not know who the bloggers are ???.

        The anonymity of the contributors in this BLOG is what is making sure that the truth will not be buried forever with the money/muscle power of the rich and the powerful.

      • Anonymous permalink
        July 20, 2012 5:42 am

        bloggisatwa

        I treat you as my guru. What a brilliant post and what wonderful comments.

        Jai Bloggidev

      • bloggisatwa permalink
        July 20, 2012 6:44 am

        I honor the sentiment behind your expression Anon. Thank you for sharing it. However, a lot of things have changed and I am not able to relate to the guru concept in the traditional sense of the term. At this point our collective wisdom is the guru.

        In the past, there are times when I have been the 100% devotee, there are times when I have been a mediocre devotee, and at times I have also been the guru in small ways. I have experienced first hand and seen the merits and de-merits of the playing in such a system. I since chose NOT to play in that construct anymore. So, as far as I am concerned, we will all learn from each other.

        You said…”I treat you as my guru”. If I understand you correctly, what you are saying is that you related very well with the words in the post and that it helped you connect to yourself in a very deep and meaningful way. Now, that is a good thing to have as a support system….as long as the “support system” does not turn around and one day have you.

        So, with a lot of gratitude to this blog as a platform that helps us all share the guru factor in each of us….I guess all we need to do is request/pray to existence for a state of continued awareness, so that, we are able to see the guru in all our relationships”….real ones (husbands, wives, parents, kids, colleagues, friends) and then virtual (like the bloggers out here)…..and real-virtual relationships (such as movie stars, politicians, sports people), many of whom at their own pain sometimes very beautifully demonstrate to us “How things should not be done“.

      • stupidseeker permalink
        July 20, 2012 6:08 am

        @Bloggisatwa,

        Wonderful posts bloggisatwa.

      • The Revolver permalink
        July 20, 2012 7:04 am

        On landgrabbing cases, I did a search on youtube and found this link:

        though it is in a local language, I can see HHSSRS flashing papers (looks property document?) at 1:29. Can someone who can understand the language, summarise the question asked and HHSSRS view?

        And how many of you have heard this story? What does it imply? Where do you think this was used?
        ****
        There was once a young gentleman standing on a train station platform questioning everyone – “Where does this train go upto?” for every train that arrived in the station. He acknowledged the answer given and kept asking the same question for all the trains that arrived through the day.

        He kept on doing this for whole day wandering on the same platform. In the evening, the Station Master asked him, “Gentleman, I see you standing here since morning enquiring about all the trains. Where would you like to go?”.

        The gentleman said, “I would like to cross the tracks and go to the opposite platform”.
        ****

      • The Revolver permalink
        July 25, 2012 8:10 pm

        by the way, the train station story that I narrated is used as a trick to silence the inquisitive questioner during the courses. I heard this story in one of the courses that I attended and later after many years I heard the purpose of this from a senior teacher.

    • anonymous permalink
      July 20, 2012 1:48 am

      ok. so why did you post Dr. Peter? did anyone ask for your opinion specifically? do you interrupt conversations as well, and say ” I have no interest in this topic so I am not going to comment”. if you want to be silent, be silent.

    • Anonymous permalink
      July 25, 2012 7:34 pm

      Dr. Peter, You have no concern about the post because you don’t care that the devotees have funded and furthered Ravi Shankars’ family, educated his nephews, put jewels and silk on his sister’s body, given his brother in law a steady income, provided lavishly for followers who are now ‘well placed’ or bought off and have no other work. I do care that this is how Ravi Shankar operates. I cared when I was very closely connected to him and confronted him about it. I was labelled ‘blue star’ (along with any one else who dares to question) for asking such terrible things. Didn’t I understand that he is God himself? That he can do no wrong? Any time I confronted him, he tried to diminish me, and when he found that I had begun to simply stand up to him, he would back down and offer money. That’s right. He offered me a salary, a nice living, good travel. I said ‘no’. The entire operation disgusts me. If you knew more, it might disgust you also. Obviously, even though I saw your name on Skywalker’s blog, you didn’t read the many many posts which described in some detail just what kind of ‘master’ you are following. Or if you did read them, you don’t care what he is as long as you remain fine and happy. Don’t stand up to him or disagree, peter, or you too will find out what he is deep inside.

  3. The Revolver permalink
    July 19, 2012 7:47 pm

    Very well researched Bloggisatwa! Thanks for all the links. I hope it will ring a bell to at least some of the seva warriors. It’s all about money, honey :).

    • bloggisatwa permalink
      July 20, 2012 9:17 am

      @ The Revolver

      The video you posted…I am getting an “It has been removed message”.

      @ Anonymous

      I would like to see the Pitaji video where he claims PhD at 14. That too has been removed. If you have it, pl would you email it to bloggisatwa@yahoo.com

      Thank you

      • The Revolver permalink
        July 20, 2012 10:39 am

        @bloggisatwa, Firstly my message with video is not yet published (as I can see at this moment); maybe Obi took it back or it could be wordpress syncs up its servers in a staggered manner.

        Secondly, Pitaji’s video (I saw it after couple of bloggers said it had been taken off) as well as the one I posted are still online. Could be google’s per-country policy? Any which way, over the weekend I will try and generate alternative links and post them here.

        From the Moderator’s Desk :

        Hi Revolver, I am filling in for Obi. I am still unable to see both videos. Could be my system firewall. Will check and revert.

        I did not post the comment as it told me that the video was taken out. I am going to post it now, hoping that the others can see it.

        Dear All : Let me know only if the video Revolver posted does not work for you.

      • Anonymous permalink
        July 20, 2012 11:01 am

        bloggisatwa – Pitaji video is still online. Watch from 12-14 minutes

  4. VSS permalink
    July 20, 2012 7:41 am

    @ bloggisatwa,

    Your first comment [July 20, 2012 1:47 am], for me, is the most insightful and significant comment on this blog so far. You demystified several issues and I am very grateful for that.

    Your second comment [July 20, 2012 3:21 am] is extremely pertinent. I did send the article about Skywalker and Judge Koh protecting the anonymity of bloggers (along with the link to the article) to various premier publications and television channels. No one responded.

    What you have said further about the connection between anonymity and the truth getting exposed — because AoL cannot buy out those it simply does not know anything about — is a colossal insight into the significance of anonymity.

    Your third comment [July 20, 2012 6:44 am] is an articulation of my perspective. I would not have been able to express myself as brilliantly in a million light years — so I thank you infinitely for giving a voice to people like me.

    It’s not just you who doesn’t believe in “the traditional concept of a guru” any more. It’s several people across the board. Several recent news reports have shown that no one is willing to take abuse in the name of “the guru-shishya parampara”.

    And, we indeed learn from different people at different points in time — from some we learn “how things should be done” — and from some we learn “how things should not be done”.

    For me, you have also highlighted the most important aspect of it all in the following lines:

    “I guess all we need to do is request/pray to existence for a state of continued awareness, so that, we are able to see the guru in all our relationships”

    Awareness is the key to being able to learn. That learning includes learning how to detect deception. I am indebted to this blog and other blogs on the same subject for helping me detect deception and warning me about the AoL trap. If I did not fall into it, it’s only because of these blogs — that’s why I support these blogs.

    • Anonymous permalink
      July 20, 2012 2:30 pm

      For the longest time I was not able to criticize RS. I used to criticize him within (and think that somehow spiritually it would reach him) but never outside in the open.
      I have always interpreted ‘Jai Gurudev’ as victory to the guru in me and others and hence the guru in me was able to critique RS but all that was within me….never on his face and never outside.
      These blogs are an amazing outlet. Winning the lawsuit to maintain anonymity is monumental.

      @Bloggisatwa and VSS – I totally relate….

  5. Anonymous permalink
    July 20, 2012 11:19 am

    @Bloggisatva,
    You are doing mankind a great favour by asking some tough questions to these so-called ‘spiritual’ gurus who are otherwise no different from businessmen, politicians and goons.

    Why don’t you extend your investigations to other cheats as well? You may start off with Ganapati Sachchidananda, who runs an empire under the name ‘Dattapeetham’ and conducts ‘healing concerts’ worldwide. I believed him and suffered for years until I realised his love for wealth (especially unaccounted money), fame and power. He claims to be an ‘avatar’ of Dattatreya and claims to possess ashta siddhis – both of which are absolutely untrue.

    How unfortunate are we in the current age to be suffering under these phony godmen such as Ravi Shankar and Ganapati Sachchidananda. Will we ever be able to see genuine enlightened gurus such as Sri Ramana Maharshi and Ramakrishna Paramahamsa?

    • bloggisatwa permalink
      July 20, 2012 5:27 pm

      I have had a very limited direct experience with Ganapathi Sachchidananda. Can’t comment much on his activities.

  6. bloggisatwa permalink
    July 21, 2012 2:32 am

    Readers and Visitors……We have had 17 comments so far.

    None of it has dissected any of the content of the original post on Inwinex. The reason this is important, is that with this post we have only scratched the surface. If you dig into places such as Yahoo finance about Inwinex and look at their past Board meeting minutes, Share re-issuals, Revenues, Losses, Expenditures in detail…….”Its a complete can of worms”. The devil is in the details. This information should circulate to anyone that has questions on AOL’s money matters. This post alone in my opinion is a very important and strategic exposure of their under table activities….with the most amount of publicly abailable evidence.

    I could and still can do the detailing. However, I was very curious to know who are the readers visting this blog and their interest to research further into a subject, once the basic idea / link has been provided. Most of you are the regular contributors……and some of you have taken some time to write your piece. Yet, this specific piece has not hit anyone in particular to the depth that I felt it needed to hit. IMO, this info should score a 9/10. So far from what I can see its a whimpering 1 to 2 on 10…if anything. If we are the ones that are still exercising our critical reasoning, then it rasies some very fundamental questions for me……and some potential conclusions….I share them below…..

    Please respond as I have to take some critical decisions for myself based on all your input. There are no right or wrong answers. I am just trying to figure out the current audience in this theatre.

    1. Does anyone care at all for additional research on the subject ? I got requests for such preliminary …tip of the iceberg research into another Swami’s ashram. But this (AOL) is the very core topic on this Blog….I am just so amazed… it seems none of us has been curious enough to pursue it further ? Are we all too busy. Or are we planning to do it this week. …if yes….how much time would we have spent ? Would we then have posted your questions ? Where is the critical thinking if any of us is not questioning this very post for its authenticity.

    For instance…I am still staggered by the OPEN nature of the scam…that it feels very unreal to me…that such a blatant malpractice is actually happening so in OUR face, and I just happened to stumble upon the info in public domain.

    So, I feel…i need to look further into it and make sure its actually what its showing itself as. Its scary to think that I might be right…and then see what you can get away with….right under public eye.

    Its even scarier to think, that none of the readers here cares enough to do any further reading, questioning, and make further contributions on this subject.

    So, a fundamental question for all of you…..is this Blog just entertainment value for us ? Is there no relevant learning that we take with us into our lives ?

    Look at the quality of the posts we have had…..some sharing, some pats on the back, ….some off track comments…..BUT Nothing of any REAL SUBSTANCE specific to the Inwinex business….!!!!

    No questions on the posted subject content so far. None. Nada. Zilch.

    2. Or is it that most of us actually do not have a questioning mind when it comes to analysing the basics of a business and are pretty clueless about how businesses operate even from a high level. We are unable to guage the BASIC health (Profit, loss, management professionalism, track record, assets, liabilities) of a business from public domain data ? Again, the details bore us. Its like an Ayurveda doc that says taking/feeling the Nadi (pulse) bores me. I just cant be interested.

    3. If this is the case of the regualr folks with turned on critical thinking that are visiting the blog, then would strongly opinionated people inside AOL care more about such subjects at all ? So, even if they did visit this blog and this specifc post, what are their chances of actually geting it ?

    Perhaps, the only people that would benefit are freshers (ie yet to join AOL) that have a base level inquisitive business mind. And since the youth are the ones that are being snared these days……how many young people in the age group 16-22 would actually care for this ?

    We could argue that even if one soul was liberated from this potential danger…its worth it. In which case lets not bother too much, because that one soul would have enough good karma to liberate themselves anyways.

    I guess that this is really about each and everyone of us. How much do we all really want to learn ? Let this question remain for a bit. If we have stopped learning….we have become stagnant. And this will start to reflect on every other aspect of our lives. Please look at the rest your journey’s and contemplate on this.

    Sorry guys for attempting to dump on you the above rhetoric and “my OWN baggage”….but it is soooo buzzing around in my head I thought I would share it with all of you seek your feedback. Pl do write back what you feel.

    I know, some of what I ask may or may not be relevant to any or all of you. In advance, apologies and sorry to have attempted to impose. Its possible that we all are are so deeply engaged with sustaining life’s day to day operations that this extra learning bit is not important anymore. Anyways, its just that I needed to know (purely selfish reasons) whether I am on the right track.

    To me, what existence is showing me at this time is “what I think is really important” is not as important to the rest of the world. If this be the case, I need to make some corrections in my own perception and analysis of such things.

    Your responses will tell me how much energy I need to invest into future posts. Thank you all for listening. This post is really not so much about AOL, but me trying to learn something for myself.

    So, what do “WE” really stand for ?

    a. Are we playing a spectator game where we are all watchers of millions of people playing Kriya, Satsang, Sadhana, manipulation, fraud in the AOL arena. We clap, laugh and shout aloud based on the performaces we see. But we are all going home after the show….to our jobs, famileis and homes.

    OR

    b. Are we also playing in the arena, actually pulling folks out of the manholes ? Are we standing at the borders of the arena educating new entrants into the full narture and rules of the game.

    OR

    c. Are we sitting in the press box ? After the game, I will go back to the office and write interpreted notes that can paint the game in anyway I want. We write about the players, the spectators and the business. We use our own fundamental biases as its my newspaper that has to sell. A story with a negative twist sells better than most.

    Until now, I thought I was playing in the arena (point B above). As of this moment, I am not so sure. Unless……YESSSSSSSSSSS….Unless………. my romantic mind screams at me….Unless…dear Bloggi…

    “Your post is such a knock out, that folks are still reeling ….and they do not actually know how to respond”…..(in my mind this is just a 2-3 % chance)…”If true…Bloggi’s ego bloats….and that is all there is to this !!!

    Guys and Gals,

    I am really looking for some real answers……and feedback from each of you. The most important and fundamental question being

    How much responsibility should I (Bloggisatwa) take for the content on this Blog ?
    How much energy should I actually put in ?
    Are the no of hits we have of any relevance ?
    Are results important ? Does this blog has no real impact, even amongst the bloggers …..?
    Is internal learning relevant ? If its not, why bother with quality and structure ?
    Do folks actually want to be educated about the choices they make ? Do you ?

    Just like AOL will claim 30,000 villages, 200 million followers, PhD at 14 years…..we can also all claim /imagine many tall things about the utility of this Blog. I have seen just a few posts from folks (VSS being one) where the blog contributed to their sustained freedom. Is the effort and the energy worth it ?….(Worth it from the perspective…..do people really care ?)

    After writing all this……a final voice in my mind tells me……Just don’t bother bloggi ……..Just log it there and leave it.

    What it does, whether it does, if it does at all, whether anything happens, unhappens………all of it is irrelevant.

    There is no real purpose. Its just there !!!!!

    The purpose itself is person / time / context sensitive….and will keep evolving every moment depending on who is seeing the world through some of the ideas expressed in this blog.

    Just the presence of this Blog …is all that is required.

    Just the presence.

    Yeah……I believe I found my answers folks. Thank you for sharing my journey.

    Enjoy your day.

    • Anonymous permalink
      July 23, 2012 6:58 am

      The best we could do other than posting stuff on this blog, is to take physical action. If AOL courses could be solicited to a stranger after picking up a couple of random conversations (as I have seen it happen in where I live in Bangalore at many temples, work places etc.,), I for one, who has seen the ill-effects of AOL, could speak up against it whenever any AOL discussion arises in my vicinity. Other than that, we cannot go to each and every AOL establishment and hold up a hoarding, can we? What can one really do other than mere blogging?

    • The Revolver permalink
      July 23, 2012 7:46 pm

      Hi bloggisatwa, In my capability, I talk to people; spread awareness about the effects AOL could have on them. And I also refer them to some _specific_ posts on this and Skywalker’s blog to keep them informed and enable them to take the right decision.

      I believe that information is power. I come here mainly to share my experiences in AOL, know more from others experiences and use them in an effective way to keep people around me /other blogs informed.

      I personally am not too keen to investigate AOL investments in different businesses. Please note I am not supporting such activities (if they are true) either.

      I am not a regular contributor (though I am a frequent visitor) on this blog.

      • bloggisatwa permalink
        July 24, 2012 1:07 am

        Thank you Revolver. I feel exploring add-ons is a good idea. Also if you have the insight, share with me the better rating systems and polls that we can use on this platform. Some of the standard recommendations are not exactly user friendly.

    • Anonymous permalink
      July 25, 2012 7:24 pm

      @Bloggisattva, vis a vis no response or little interest in further investigation…… I think in my case, I am simply convinced that no one can bring these people down except the media, who appear to be either asleep or in Ravi Shankar’s pocket. I know for a complete and true fact that RS’s family did not have sufficient money to educate his nephews overseas, and that all this money came from early donations from duped devotees. I don’t know how I could prove this. The media could expose the origins of all the ‘businesses’. And at this point, those nephews did go, with money that was supposed to be for charity, to overseas schools, and earn degrees with which they can now do business and get well paying jobs. So most investigating would get to that point and get told “those are young men earning their own money…” and would not look to how they got educated in the first place. I just don’t see what I could do to expose these people. I went directly to the source of the fraud and confronted him directly. For this I was defamed, harrassed and abused. Is it any wonder I would have no energy or courage to pursue the exact direction of all the obvious fraud? People like “Klim” and “Skywalker” who were sued, put it all on the line, and never gave up, are rare indeed. I don’t count myself as courageous or as strong as they are. I applaud them for even having a blog! And I applaud you and Obi-Wan for following through with the work. I post when I can, and read when I have time, and am always delighted when something new is unearthed. But I truthfully feel quite helpless to do much about any of it except to tell little bits of my own dreadful experience of Art of Living and hope that others will take up the mantel and carry this through to completion. It’s not laziness. It’s discouragement. People like Ravi Shankar and his dishonest family seem to garner the trust and love of whole societies. It frankly makes me lose faith in humanity some days. Sorry I can’t do more. I hope that all of it gets exposed and the appropriate people go to jail for all of this. That’s what really needs to happen. The newspapers could do a fantastic job. But they are not doing it. The land grabbing is somehow falling to the side (pay-offs?)

  7. VSS permalink
    July 21, 2012 2:17 pm

    @ bloggisatwa [July 21, 2012 2:32 am],

    “I have seen just a few posts from folks (VSS being one) where the blog contributed to their sustained freedom.”

    This is true. But I humbly disagree with the perception that it’s just a few people who are impacted thus. Few post comments. That is a fact. But I have read several comments from people (in Skywalker’s blog) in which they have mentioned how much they benefited from these blogs. Perhaps they stopped commenting because they feel that what they wish to say has already been articulated by someone else. But, they do express their presence by continuing to read these blogs. (The hits on Skywalker’s blog are steadily increasing as well.)

    I was a silent reader for quite some time — several months I think. I was unable to overcome my hesitation. Then, someone who I respect a lot helped me overcome my hesitation. (He’s a poet and he said that one must not lose any opportunity to participate in poetic justice — and that all such opportunities are a privilege. He explained to me — over several hours — how these blogs personify poetic justice.)

    But anyway, if you were to attempt audience profiling, there’s one category of people who read these blogs but don’t comment. They are people like me who need the contribution these blogs make to their “sustained freedom” — except they don’t comment. I believe in Hinduism but don’t associate Hinduism with AoL.

    You see, each person who comments is a sample of their category.

    Let’s study this post from that perspective.

    The second category that has been represented on this post is the category that Dr. Peter represents. (Most of them are those who associate Hinduism with AoL.)

    Within this category, there are four sub samples represented by — him, Harshal, Sadhana and Uttam. But essentially this is the category that “believes” in Mr. Ravi Shankar and would constantly lapse into a state of “cognitive dissonance” — meaning that no matter what evidence is posted or assertion is made, they will twist it to mean something that suits their belief in Mr. Ravi Shankar — or at least that is what they project.

    I am also including the inner circle and AoL teachers in Dr. Peter’s category because of intensity of attachment to all things AoL — or at least projected intensity of attachment to all things AoL.

    Then, the next category is represented by Anonymous [July 20, 2012 5:42 am]. This is someone who believes in the traditional concept of a “guru” but obviously feels cheated by Mr. Ravi Shankar.

    Following that is a category represented by stupidseeker. He is an atheist who does not respect any religion from what I gather.

    Then the next category is the one represented by The Revolver. I don’t know if he is an atheist or not but he is definitely a Hinduism-basher though I feel it’s because of ignorance about Hinduism.

    The next category is represented by anonymous [July 20, 2012 1:48 am]. This is the category of those who can see through those who represent Dr. Peter’s category. There’s also some evidence of anger here but an astute mind that is quick to detect oddity in human behaviour. Dr. Peter was trying to pretend that this post doesn’t affect him and this person gave him good. (This person may or may not believe in Hinduism but does not disrespect those who do and actually focuses on catching “deception”.)

    Following that is the category represented by Anonymous [July 20, 2012 2:30 pm]. Again, it’s not clear whether this person is a believer or not but this person is definitely respectful. In fact, this person has expressed a colossal insight (from my perspective). The person says “For the longest time I was not able to criticize RS.” This means that there are many out there who — for some reason — hesitate or experience fear. It could well be a reason why they don’t post comments. If I were you, I would actively consider addressing this fear in some post in the future. Maybe there are some people who would read that post and overcome their fear.

    Last but by no means the least — in fact the most important category — is the one that you represent — the ex AoL teacher who is a believer, talks about praying to existence without fear — but actively cautions readers about interpreting traditional concepts blindly.

    Therefore, there are 8 categories represented on this thread. The second category (Dr. Peter’s category) — I think — is larger than others — as it has many sub categories.

    Now, let’s look at the main post. While humility is a fantastic quality, please don’t be dismissive about those who appreciate this post. No one is being insincere. Allow me to explain. All those of us who are appreciative know that Mr. Ravi Shankar’s father and his brother-in-law did not have the money to invest in various businesses.

    We all have discovered through Skywalker’s blog and other sources (for me that includes Facebook profiles of AoL members) that Sumeru this and Sumeru that and Inwinex are connected to Mr. Ravi Shankar’s family and close friends. That is the main shock. One sees that money raised for charity is being used for the generation of private wealth. We see the name of Mr. Ravi Shankar’s nephew and brother-in-law in the list of functionaries, we know precisely what’s going on.

    One of my former employers was in this business of creating several companies and showing losses to the tax department and selling one company to the other and all such murky tactics to avoid paying taxes — essentially to fool the government. So, I don’t need to get into the details to know what Mr. Ravi Shankar and his family are upto. I’ll do a quick scan of documents and know what’s going on. I can’t possibly be the only one who has exposure to these kinds of murky tactics through some prior knowledge of these activities. The others who read this post may be similarly aware of what these murky tactics are.

    The next purpose of looking at details is to know what kind of money they are playing with — it doesn’t seem like they are playing with hundreds of crores (like Jagan Reddy’s family — reportedly they offered 100 crores to secure his bail) — but it does seem like they have quite a few crores to play around with. Obviously, they’d also have to have quite a bit to spend the stupendous amount of money that they did on the legal suit.

    Once one has this information, one is content with one’s investigation. It doesn’t mean one does not investigate.

    Then is the question of the impact of a post like this — those who believe that spirituality should not involve anything murky will be in shock the first time they find out that Mr. Ravi Shankar is using money raised for charity — for the generation of personal wealth and wealth for his family and close friends.

    However, those who do anything murky in their own lives will be comforted to find that their guru is no different from them — but is in fact the guru of all murky activities. This, I am saying, based on my training as a historian, on the basis of my observations about social trends in the realm of morality and ethics.

    Yet, I’ll add that I could be wrong. I am a human being and I can err as much as another human being — usually I err more. So, please assess every word in this post before accepting it. I have categorized people based on their beliefs but it’s very possible that I’m wrong. This is just my perception as of now. It could well evolve and change if I find another perspective that I relate to more.

    I typically operate on the assumption that I could be wrong and I keep learning lessons (as I did in the case of that blog on Hinduism most recently and that’s why I’m really sorry about all those comments and have requested for deletion — I can be an utter fool — the only advantage of that is that I can spot foolishness easily because of my personal expertise in fool psychology — that’s why I see B&D’s foolishness and Mr. Ravi Shankar’s foolishness almost instantly).

    Other than that, I’ll just say “do what your heart says” and “do what you can until you can do more” — as far as this blog is concerned. These are the tenets I follow so I thought I’d share them with you.

    If you’re interested in knowing my ideas on potential posts on this blog, and other feedback that I might have to offer, please let me know and I’ll email you.

    One more thing — every time you wonder about what hits indicate — please recall what B&D said about hits — and how they desperately appealed to followers and said something like please don’t increase hits. Ever since they said that, hits on this blog have increased.

    You’re doing a fab job. If you think anything of me, then at least one person thinks you’re doing a fab job — and no — without the information on these blogs — I wouldn’t have been saved by my good karma. I am a mere mortal. Remember what Skywalker said ? He said that when he googled “Art of Living fraud”, nothing came up. (Incidentally, tags are very important and I’m glad that you’ve tagged this post really well. This is important for those who would be deploying google because they have doubts about Mr. Ravi Shankar and AoL.)

    P.S. Please take it as a compliment that there is also a category (category 9) of people who are from other cults who are also visiting this blog. If they are getting any help by being here, it means that though this blog talks about AoL, people who have had unfortunate experiences with other cults are also finding solace here. It means that a universal message against exploitation by cults is going out. The pen is mightier than the sword. Never forget that. Don’t also forget that it was these blogs that led to the revolutionary order by Judge Koh. That one benefits all bloggers — not just this blog. I send you my best for being the courageous gem that you definitely are. Take care…

    • Meditator permalink
      July 21, 2012 4:14 pm

      VSS – Believe me, there would be a handful who would like to read ‘NOVELS’ on a blog. Do you know the Art of Summarizing and keeping things simple?

      Sometimes novels are needed, but everytime? Is it necessary to comment on each and every post/comment?

      Once again, your decision, but I’d skip all lengthy comments from you as I’ve been doing in the past.

  8. The Revolver permalink
    July 21, 2012 4:42 pm

    *****
    Then the next category is the one represented by The Revolver. I don’t know if he is an atheist or not but he is definitely a Hinduism-basher though I feel it’s because of ignorance about Hinduism.
    *****

    @VSS, Re-read your comment posted on July 15, 2012 4:24 PM

    ” I would humbly request you to not assume anything about others. I don’t assume anything about anyone who is posting here as I don’t know anyone who posts here personally. There is absolutely no point in assuming the details of anyone’s story / life. I have no idea about your story / life.”

    and please can you re-read the rules of this blog again as posted by Meditator. And stop spewing your hinduism comments here. Take it up on your blog. It isn’t helping anyone if you moan about hinduism bashing because as you said many times this blog is related to AOL.

    Obi, I humbly request you to explain VSS on this. He/She doesn’t seem to understand.

    • Dayalu permalink
      July 22, 2012 3:35 pm

      Meditator, Revolver,

      No point in trying; some people simply cannot understand the pointlessness of being unnecessarily verbose and just want themselves heard even if it is the same thing repeated a hundred times. I tried it in vain months ago and decided to stop reading comments from that individual. But the problem is I have to scroll down so much to get to the next comment. I wish there were ways to filter out comments that appear in my screen.

      • The Revolver permalink
        July 22, 2012 4:15 pm

        🙂

      • AnonYmous permalink
        July 22, 2012 5:15 pm

        @ Dayalu,

        “But the problem is I have to scroll down so much to get to the next comment. I wish there were ways to filter out comments that appear in my screen.”

        I cant agree with you more!!

        I only hope that all the relevant comments don’t get buried under the pile as it sometimes happened on the other blog.

  9. VSS permalink
    July 22, 2012 5:42 am

    @ Meditator and The Revolver,

    My comment [July 21, 2012 2:17 pm] went into moderation before it was approved. A very long comment usually goes into moderation before getting approved. FYI. So, even long comments in the past went into moderation before getting approved.

    So, if you have a problem, either don’t read my comments or email the moderator. Further, whether or not I respond to a comment is my wish — determined by my free will. There is no rule that says I can respond to only certain comments.

    Nor is there a rule that says that if the moderator has posted a comment about audience profiling and asked readers for their perspective, I can’t respond in the way that I wish — determined by my free will.

    So, once again, if you have a problem with the moderation on this blog, please email the moderator. I have told the moderator that I have no problem whatsoever with any comment being deleted and / or edited. This is the best that I can do and I have done so. So, it’s really the moderator’s call.

    Your attempts at brainwashing me with your expressions of rage are not working. Sorry.

    This blog is not a cult. There is no cult leader and there are no senior teachers. So, please stop acting like bullies. If you don’t wish to read a comment, no one on earth, heaven, or hell can make you read it.

    But, if you’re expecting Obi-Wan and Bloggisatwa to issue diktats that all are to follow blindly, like B&D do, then you are expecting them to behave like cult leaders and others to behave like their devotees. This will never happen. They will not control my mind. I shall write what my heart says and post it. If they wish, they can edit / delete what I have posted.

    They cannot control how I write or what I write. Besides, brevity is a skill that is acquired over time and no one should discriminate against anyone for not possessing a skill. The best you can do is not read what I’ve posted and I do hope that you won’t because your reactive temper tantrums are irrational and hence falling on deaf ears. And, goodbye. I don’t intend to interact with either of you in the near or distant future.

    When I decided against going to AoL, I rejected all cults and all manifestations of cult-like behaviour. I haven’t changed my mind since. No one is going to control my mind — not Mr. Ravi Shankar, not B&D, not Obi-Wan, not Bloggisatwa, not you — no one means no one. I hope that is very clear to you.

    • Meditator permalink
      July 22, 2012 4:21 pm

      @VSS – Did not have the time to go thru the longish post once again. Just saw my name in the beginning.

      Can you please keep things simple and post a summary as requested. I know it will be difficult for you, but you can atleast make an attempt? Baby steps as they say.

      Let me summarize about what I think of you in a single sentence – “You are simply filled with hatred and do not see the others perspective unless it is in line with your thinking”.

      This site is not an AOL HATING site. It’s just putting forward one’s views and experiences and to let an individual decide what is right or wrong. Hope you are capable of understanding this in your troubled times.

      Wish you all the best. God bless.

      Amen !!!

  10. Anonymous permalink
    July 22, 2012 7:05 pm

    Obi-Wan,

    VSS seems to be doing a writing practice on this blog. Her comments are sidetracking issues and diluting the seriousness of this blog.

    Could you please post her comments only if there is any substance and only after editing out unnecessary lines.

  11. July 23, 2012 9:44 am

    @All,

    If it isn’t obvious by now, I have asked Bloggisatwa to help me with moderation, and I am very grateful that he has accepted.

    @VSS,

    I have to be perfectly honest and tell you that I just don’t read super-long comments posted by you either because I just don’t have the time. Please consider who you are actually trying to reach with your comments, if anyone at all. If you are writing them for your own sake and to get them down somewhere, that is absolutely fine. But if you are trying to enter into some sort of dialogue with others, then seriously consider shortening your comments, keeping them as brief as possible but to the point. That way people will actually read what you have to write. You may have written something very good in a number of your comments above, but I don’t know about it as I simply don’t have the time to read them.

    @All,

    If you don’t want to read VSS’s comments, you can simply do what I did and hit the Page Down button on your browser (or use the scroll bar) to get to the next comment. It’s really quite easy. We’re not going to start deleting comments unless they are way off-topic.

    • bloggisatwa permalink
      July 23, 2012 1:29 pm

      Hi Obi, Hi All,

      I was truly interested in knowing what readers and visitors were interested in. Interestingly VSS is the only one that responded in any detail or relevance. I consider that as a contribution. Otherwise the record would have shown a full zero. Most of us do not mind watching a 20 minute video, but reading through a scripted piece for a few minutes makes us very impatient.

      For me, writing is just not not some doodling exercise. It takes a lot of introspection, thinking and energy before you commit your message to writing. If we are not interested in the message that is OK. Why fault the messenger ? The messenger did not do a forced door delivery to any of us. Its not like the spam emails. We read only if we are interested.

      Like Obi said….just hit a page down. I do the same. There are many of VSS’s posts that I still have not read fully. However, in my experience, there are times when I have gone back and read them…and have found something of value which I totally missed before. When that happens, I can see that it has taken much intensity and effort on the writers part.

      Some pretty gross, unjustifiable exploitation of innocent minds is happening by AOL. Hence it is expected that if you are here…you do care about that and you do want to contribute your stories and thoughts. Lets not feel forced to come here and read the blog everyday. A few extra lines got posted. That is all. A few extra bytes of information got loaded on a page. That is all there is to it.

      • The Revolver permalink
        July 23, 2012 2:15 pm

        *******
        Otherwise the record would have shown a full zero. Most of us do not mind watching a 20 minute video, but reading through a scripted piece for a few minutes makes us very impatient.
        *******
        @bloggisatwa, Maybe you would have got a much better response rate if you would have kept your comment “to the point”. Just a thought. Maybe the message would’ve got “page down’ed” by people?

        To be honest; I read first few lines and jumped to the end where I remember you said, “I’ve found the answer!”. So there were no more questions?

        How do you know that everyone watches a 20 min video completely? And also remember the person in the video is popular ;).

      • bloggisatwa permalink
        July 23, 2012 3:27 pm

        *******
        Otherwise the record would have shown a full zero. Most of us do not mind watching a 20 minute video, but reading through a scripted piece for a few minutes makes us very impatient.
        *******
        @bloggisatwa, Maybe you would have got a much better response rate if you would have kept your comment “to the point”. Just a thought. Maybe the message would’ve got “page down’ed” by people?

        I agree Revolver. What you say makes sense. I need to work on this bit. And I will. Thank you.

        To be honest; I read first few lines and jumped to the end where I remember you said, “I’ve found the answer!”. So there were no more questions?

        Yes….That’s right….I started off with the questions….by the time I finished the most important ones were answered. Tells you how long I took…..

        How do you know that everyone watches a 20 min video completely? And also remember the person in the video is popular 😉 .

        Definitely not everyone. I should have said “Many of us” instead of “Most of us”…

        As I see it now, Its more of a bias on my part. I feel says that I may be not far wrong though only because I am noticing this as a very strong trend in today’s generation. And I have some grey hair. But it definitely needs to be qualified. Thank you for pointing out.

        I did want to make a comparison, hoping I could to make a point. Hope that’s Ok guys. Be well allofya

      • Meditator permalink
        July 23, 2012 2:15 pm

        Agree with you bloggisatwa.

        @VSS I’m sorry for my last 2-3 comments. Will not be repeated. I sincerely mean it.

      • The Revolver permalink
        July 23, 2012 2:30 pm

        @bloggisatwa, Today I will reply to your comment (asking for feedback etc.) when I get some time.

        Coming to “pressing pagedown repeatedly” with all joy, while we are on this topic, if Obi and you are interested, I will have a look at wordpress plugins and see if we can enable the “skim comment” feature. i.e. display first few lines in a comment and leave it to the reader to expand it. It sounds pretty basic feature and it should already be done. If someone is technically inclined, they can write their own client doing things that they want it to do on their readers. Just my perspective, let me know if I can help.

  12. stupidseeker permalink
    July 23, 2012 4:01 pm

    @Bloggisatwa,

    The upanishadists with great difficulty managed to get this verse into the BG as a rebuttal to the vedic brahmanists who were only ever interested in getting the populace to perform this or that sacrifice for boons or favours from the gods.

    “Karmanye Vadhikaraste, Ma phaleshou kada chana,
    Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani””

    It makes great practical sense too, if you look at it the proper way. As they say in Hindi ” Acchai karo aur darya mein baha do””. Thats how social change is brought about. Who knows who skywalker or KLIM is ?? But see the social change they have wrought.

  13. FAITH KEEPER permalink
    January 22, 2013 5:26 pm

    HI ONE MAJOR DRAW BACK IN THIS INFORMATION IS , THE COMPANY WAS TAKEN OVER FROM EARLIER PROMOTERS I YEAR 2010 , BEFORE WHICH SSRS OR HIS NEPHEW IS NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LOSSES OR PRODUCTS MANUFACTURED BY THEM ,

    BUT IT IS RESPONSIBILITY OF SSRS AND HIS NEPHEW TO RUN THE COMPANY IN PROFITS ,AS HE IS HAVING HUGE RESOURCES , BUT STILL WANTS TO MAKE LOSS , AS WANTS TO TAKE OVER THE ASSETS OF COMPANY , WHICH IS HAVING GREAT REAL ESTATE VALUE .

    SIMPLE SHOW LOSSES AND THAN SELL LAND TO SOME OF HIS SO CALLED DEVOTTEE IN CHEAP PRICE , THIS WAY DUPE SHARE HOLDERS AND GOVT…….

Trackbacks

  1. Summary of Criticisms Against Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and Art of Living | Further Beyond the Art of Living
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